Transcript: Scottish Television’s The Five Thirty Show

By Jen Dodds | March 14th, 2008 | Posted in Media Campaign, Uncategorized |

The British Deaf Association’s Richard Jones was interviewed on Scottish Televisions’ The Five Thirty Show on Wednesday. You can watch it here (link valid until Tuesday 18th March). Richard uses BSL but there are no subtitles - many thanks to Rachel Belk for transcribing it below:

Male presenter (Stephen): Now, who would choose for their child to be anything less than perfect? Well, a Deaf couple in say they, at least, would like the option. New fertility legislation is set to make it illegal to use embryos with an abnormality like deafness during IVF treatment, but the couple argue that is discrimination.

Female presenter (Debi): They believe they have the right to choose to have a deaf child and want that right to be recognised. Well, joining us in the studio to talk about this controversial topic is medical ethics expert, Professor Hugh McLachlan alongside Richard Jones from the British Deaf Association and the voice you will be hearing is that of interpreter Andrew Dewey. To you, Richard, first of all: Should this couple have the right to have a deaf child?

Richard Jones (via interpreter): Well, this Deaf couple, I believe, should have the right to choose. Obviously, if it’s hearing or deaf, it shouldn’t make any difference and that choice should be made available.

Stephen: Professor, we’ve seen in the past, couples choosing or trying to choose, to determine the sex of the child. This takes it to a whole different level though, doesn’t it?

Prof Hugh McLachlan: Yes, but I think, whether or not people have a right to make that choice, I think it’s morally permissible. I don’t think there’s any child harmed by this. I mean, I think it would be one thing to ‘deafen’ a child who could otherwise hear, but that’s quite different from choosing to have a child who otherwise wouldn’t be born who happens to be deaf.

Stephen: But what would you say to people who say it’s selfish on the part of the parents to want the child to be like them and in their image.

Prof Hugh McLachlan: Well, I don’t know that it’s selfish in the sense that other people’s rights are infringed. Selfishness suggests that, not only do you do what you want to do, but you’re doing something that other people are harmed by. I don’t think that is selfish in this case, no. Self-regarding, but not selfish.

Debi: what would you say to that, Richard?

Richard Jones (via interpreter): Well, for Deaf people, whilst it might be seen as a deficit, we view deafness in a very positive light, in that there is a d/Deaf member of the Welsh Assembly, there are many d/Deaf people that run successful businesses and so, those people, it’s an issue that people won’t allow Deaf people to make their choice.

Debi: So you would like to see, potentially, the law changed?

Richard Jones (via interpreter): Yes. I think, as the professor has said, it’s not infringing upon other people. If deaf people are born deaf, they should be allowed to grow up and to have deaf parents, to allow them to rear them. They’ll have a quality of life and that should be encouraged and many deaf people lead good quality productive lives.

Stephen: You’re an expert in ethics, professor. Where does this stop though, if we carry on down this road?

Prof Hugh McLachlan: I think it stops where we want it to stop! I think slippery slopes are no more slippery slopes than greasy gradients – upward-sloping. We choose where it stops and I think, in this case, I’m disappointed with the decision and I think, in a case like this, they should be permitted to choose.

Debi: Do you think it’s a lifestyle choice, in a way?

Prof Hugh McLachlan: Well, even if it is as well, that doesn’t make it wrong. I don’t think there’s any person’s rights infringed here and I think other choices should be allowed as well. I don’t think choosing, itself, is wrong. Even if other people wouldn’t have chosen on that basis, I don’t think it follows we should make it impermissible to do so.

Stephen (to Richard): Is this debate good from your point of view because one of the things the couple have said is they don’t see deafness as a disadvantage in their lives. It’s not held them back. Is this a good way of looking at deafness and the impact it has on people’s lives? And the way that it can, in fact, let you lead a full and fruitful life?

Richard Jones (via interpreter): Yes. The view of the majority of society often looks at the larger norms of society, which is hearing, whereas the smaller minorities really should be included and not looked at just from that medical viewpoint as if deafness is something that makes them inferior. Deaf people can contribute to society, they should be treated as equals and as citizens.

Debi: Well, this is a debate, I think, which could run and run. So thank you very much to both of you for joining us.

Stephen: Yes, thank you for your time. What do you (viewers) think about this controversial topic? As always, we want to hear your views. Get in touch with us via the addresses that are on your screen (stephen@stv.tv and debi@stv.tv ).

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